So I created a post several years ago, and wanted to look for help based on the current situation. My father-in-law had a debilitating stroke a few years ago. He can't walk on his own, barely talks and has a feeding tube for nutrition. He has been in a nursing home the past few years, and recently he ended up in the hospital with a UTI. My wife now wants him out of this nursing home, and wants to move him into our home to take care of him. Here are a couple things to keep in mind.
Our house is not wheelchair accessible, bathrooms/hallways are a bit tight.
We have 2 small children that live in the house, she wants to put them into one room so he can have his own room. Or put him into the oldest one's room, he's not pleased with that idea as you can imagine.
No one in his family cares much about him, including his estranged wife and 3 other kids. He has a sister who wishes he was dead. My wife is the only one who wants to take care of him.
My wife is a nurse, and she is under the impression that she'll be able to handle his care 24-7. I know it's going to take 2 people to get him to the bathroom or to change his diaper.
He has no income besides Medicare, about $800 a month, and the nursing home has been using that for the past few years.
Now I've expressed my opinion on the situation, but I don't think she is taking anyone else into consideration. She has already closed his account at the nursing home, and he will soon be release from the hospital. I'm pretty sure she is just going to bring him home. She does not discuss any details with me. I told her that this decision could possibly break apart our family, and she is willing to go that route, BUT we are living on a combined income so I don't see how she would be able to do it on her own, much less with both of us on board. Me personally, I think he has had no quality of life in the past few years. No one has gone to visit him, including my wife. I don't see any way for his condition to improve as it has gotten much worse over the past year. If it was my father, I would have a talk with the immediate family about removing the feeding tube and let him pass. I know that is a hard decision, but lying in bed all day and not seeing anyone ever is awful. I've asked other family members on her side if they would be able to take him in, and of course no one will, they all have excuses. I've asked if they would like to move him to a different facility in their area/states, where he can be closer to them, and no one has stepped up. The facility he was at was a good hour or so from us, it was the closest one available.
Does anyone have any knowledge of what Medicare/Medicaid would cover for caregiving at home? What I saw was 35 hours a week, but not for long term. My wife said that she could be his caregiver, and they would pay her X amount of money, but I didn't hear any other details with that option so I don't know if we could afford that route. My wife would have to quit her current job, so we would be losing half of our income, and with the way everything is costing right now, we can't afford to do that. So I guess, my question is a couple parts. 1, how do I convince her that this isn't an option? Even if money wasn't an issue, I honestly don't think she could handle it. She brought him home for a holiday last year, took care of him for 2 days. After the 2nd day she had to take 2 days off of work because of the exhaustion. 2nd question, does anyone have any real life experience dealing with Medicare/Medicaid for home health care, at home care giving, so I have those facts ready when I try to have a discussion with her? Also note, this has been a very hostile topic, and has caused some knock down drag out fights, some occurring in front of our youngest child. I have told her numerous times, that I do not want this to cause these fights in front of the kids as it's harming them mentally. We've had some issues now with our youngest at school. Please help!
I just read your other posts and there's something going on with her that she wants to keep hidden. I'll tell you what I think it is and I hope I'm wrong.
She wants a divorce from you and doesn't want to be the "bad guy" who throws her husband, the father of her children out.
So she'll take her invalid father out of the nursing home and move him in and it will drive you out.
I was married twice myself and I know that people will do all kinds of things when they want out of a marriage rather than just tell the truth.
My friend, I feel terrible for you. I really do. Your marriage is over, but don't give into your wife. She's choosing her father over her husband and children. Don't let her chase you out of your house because it belongs to you too.
What's happening to you usually happens to women (daughters). The husband wants his mother or father to move in and his wife gets no say at all.
Talk to a lawyer right away. Since you are also an owner of the home you may be able to get a court-order preventing her father from being moved into the house that you also own.
Go to the nursing home he is in. Tell their administrator that you also own the house you live in and that you are not allowing him to be moved into your house.
Talk to a lawyer.
I would write down all the negative and positive points and use that as a guide to keep the conversation on track. You guys have to speak about this situation, it will change the lives of every person in the home. Everything will be about her dad and his needs. What about a fair shot for the children living in the home?
Maybe approaching this as a discussion of "What is this caregiving situation going to look like? would be more palatable for her and you. In reality everyone will be helping prop this situation up, either by direct care or picking up the slack because your wife is giving everything to her dad and not able to do anything else.
She isn't thinking right now, she is being led by her emotions and that never works out well.
I am curious, how old is dad? Did his stroke occur from a medical condition or lifestyle choices?
Bottom line for your wife to understand, none of us get out of here alive. If him dying in a NH is going to ruin her, what is going to happen when he dies under her watch?
Don't argue with her, it only causes her to dig in. Help her sort out the reality of this choice and have an exit plan that gets dad back into managed care after a given time, if things are going to pot.
Her Dad is 70, had the stroke when he was 67, ohhh about a month after we got married. And get this, he has afib..he actually had a mini stroke about a month previous to the major one. Dr. prescribed him eliquis, and guess what, he didn't take it. Cried about how much it cost, or that he was throwing it up, but never let my wife know about any of that. Well, a month later, and boom, major stroke, laid out on the floor for 8 hours..honestly shouldn't have made it. I think if he died here, she would be perfectly content, thinking that she did a great job at the end of his life. She has stated numerous times that the NH is going to kill him, and while all NH's can have poor care, this one has a 5.0 rating on Google, so it must not be that bad. But again, if you never saved any money, ripped everyone off, including your own family, have no assets, and end up getting sick, you are going to get the best care that your SS pays for. It's difficult to not argue with her about this topic, as I get pretty furious at her for even considering it. This is not something that has just come up, but an ongoing off and on issue over the past few years.
Barring that, it won't work. Your wife will probably burn out in short order
This poor guy's life is in total disarray and you think it's FUNNY? SMH.
I can state with absolute firmness that your kids will be negatively affected by this for the rest of their lives.
Example: A sick person in the home is essentially the 'boss' Everything revolves around their care.
Her dad dies while in your home. Whichever kid got displaced by Grandpa is almost assuredly going to be 'icked out' by this. My kids loved their grandpa, but when he'd start in with his phlegmy cough which would last for hours--they left the house and didn't come back until they knew he'd be gone. They loved him, but were too young to have the compassion and long range judgment to see that the care I gave him in our home (meals and visits only-he never moved in)--was just that: love and compassion. But I NEVER allowed my DH to bring him to our house for 'good'. I would have left my DH and taken my kids and gone ANYWHERE to not be told day and night that I wasn't 'nice'. (Yet I never ONCE saw my DH do anything of a CG job for his dad. Anything involving bodily fluids had him barfing his guts out, while I am trying to deal with the issue at hand.
My mom just passed away, 3 weeks ago. She died in her home, 'near' her bed. None of us adults were unduly shocked or terrified of this, but we didn't tell the ggkids how she died, or where. They'd never go back to her apartment.
My heart aches for you. Your wife doesn't seem of sound mind at all!
BTW--I must have missed this--who is your dad's POA? If it's you, then you hold the 'winning hand'. USe that to 'force' the movement of your dad to a different NH if the one he's been in has released him and won't take him back.
So sorry for your struggles.
"She does have POA with him, and I was pretty pissed off that she was the one to sign up for that task early on. I have asked her one sibling if he could transfer that to him, but again no action, just talk."
Everyone in the family will be impacted and your financial, mental and physical health. Your kids will be impacted the most as she will not have any time for anything other than caring for her father.
If I were in this situation, I would not allow her to bring him home and if she did, I would find somewhere else for the rest of the family to live. I think you need to give her the same ultimatum.
It sounds she is set on this course, but maybe point out how many people it takes to care for her Dad, in shifts? And she thinks she ( and family ) can do what it takes a whole team to do?
If or when Dad comes in ( hopefully not! ) maybe focus entirely on the kid care - and yourself! That’s still a lot and I’m sure you all could use stability and some good times together. Easier said than done of course but you get the idea.
Totally rooting for you….sending you much luck!
I encourage you to make her get the actual Medicaid situation in writing. Because it is usually minimum wage for minimum hours. They tend to think that a family member is doing what they are for familial love, not pay.
Does she think she can nurse him out of being a piece of crap? Because she can't. Brain injuries and illness tend to make people more of what they are.
His behavior screams user and she doesn't see that his "get me outta here! " is just using her. My lands, he doesn't every care about his grandchildren, that says everything I need to know. He's a self centered, selfish pos and she is willing to ruin everyone's life around her to please him?
You sure you want your son raised by her?
With today's commercial office spaces, there is a glut of available space, but the rents or buying have gone skyward, I know one would think the commercial property owner or management company would lower rents/sales to get the offices filled. The owner can write off vacant spaces as a loss for tax purposes.
If you find you really need to escape, I highly recommend sub-letting a space where a company/group has an empty office you can use.
I really hope this situation doesn't come to a point where you can no longer work from home.
You can think about this, I have mixed ideas. I sleep in the bed my mother died in, but I do know that some people find the whole things very off. In fact, I’ve met a couple who insisted on building a new house, just to be sure that no-one had died in it. What does W say about this aspect?
She might need a work sabbatical instead of going this route. Can she take off a month or two from work, just rest and rejuvenate, then the discussion on Dad can resume? (He goes back to the NH for this period she's off.)
After a period away from her major stresses, she might think more clearly on things and be more rational about it all. The fact that she'd be willing to up-end the entire family's lives is concerning, so I'll bet there's something else behind this.
But I see something that caught my eye...
K's Wife is unhappy & burnt out at work! A'Ha!
So. Here is part 2 of her motivation (part 1 being no-NH-ever).
Is she thinking a nursing job, for just 1 patient, a family member, will be a cakewalk?
Is she thinking the benefits of private nursing, for this one patient (Dad), will be more financially & emotionally rewarding?
Is she sick if working for the 'system' & the thought of appointing herself as In Charge in her own home a far superior deal?
If I put my 'black thinking hat' on here.. But.. what about the children? Who will cover the other shifts so she can sleep & eat?
And the BIG question.. is this FAIR to her family?? To Dad, Spouse, children?
Wife doesn't just want to take care of her dad, does she. She wants to rescue him, to provide gold standard care along the guidelines that we all know should be achieved but almost never are even in fully-staffed and fully-equipped healthcare settings, and at the same time to compensate for all that went wrong in his relationships not only with her but with his own wife and the rest of her family. If she puts him in a nursing home "they will kill him" and she couldn't live with that. But actually he is heading for an ugly end-of-life and death, has been on that course for some years now, and she has shouldered all responsibility for it. Because no one else will. Because heaven knows why.
What does he want? Where does he think he should live once he's discharged from hospital?
Taking the lead on his care isn't a bad idea, given that she is a qualified and currently practising nurse. But the idea of providing all of it, in a family home with a busy young family in it, is... nuts. Which she must know full well.
How long have you got before his proposed discharge date?
I just had my mother in short term rehab & wanted her to transfer to long term when it ended..the NH wanted her out & asked me to find another facility for her. I wanted her to just stay there but I gave them 2 choices & they both declined her. I also got laid off from my part time job the same day!!! So being emotional, I just said I’ll take her home again. I paid Atty & signed retainer when she entered facility..figuring she just go to long term after short term rehab! The NH also couldn’t manage her at times. I came after work to help feed her & found her in dining room screaming 😱 “my tushie hurts…I want to go home 🏡 “. I asked Nurse if she took her meds & she said my mother refused…so I asked if she tried again…I ended up giving meds to my mother with Nurse ok. Also, they were leaving her in wheelchair for 12 hours without changing diaper! No wonder pressure sore came back! But Social Worker kept telling me to find another facility & that they’re mostly just short term & have no long term beds . Coincidentally, the other facilities gave same lying excuse…BS …I don’t believe..because they want to pick & choose not so difficult patients. Not like my mother…dementia & needs help with everything. 2 person assist. However, at home we can get her into wheelchair with just one person. I did it today when Aide had day off. I could have left her there & say it would be unsafe discharge but they would try other ways to get her out, I believe. I could see they couldn’t manage her..& I couldn’t do tours of different facilities in a rushed fashion..I knew about the 2 others..close & convenient to my house..but these nursing homes are so corrupt & they don’t care about anything but $$$$$ , sadly. You have to go there every day to check on your loved ones. What I want to say is that if your wife takes him home permanently, he’ll have trouble getting back in another one. A trial period to see how ugly this could be at home I’d recommend before discharging him. I believe after a trial period, wife will be glad to take him back when trial period over! I hope my advice helps prevent this inevitable disaster. Hugs 🤗
however, a bed is a bed is a bed - from the director of the ombudsman program in my state.
so you can push back on that one...
care just isn't great in nursing homes anymore.....
On your ? Re:Medicaid paying. Hang with me on this…. Medicaid is a huge set of programs, from Happy Teeth Vans for kids to LTC in a SNF / skilled nursing facility. Each State determines what Medicaid program they will do but under federal guidelines. E.g. most States Medicaid do not ever pay for AL. For IHHS aka inhome health those can pay a family member as a caregiver - if your State does this program - but it’s at slightly above states minimum wage, like $10 hr in $7.50 min wage state. # of hours interdependent on FILs needs assessment. HOWEVER if his assessment goes over 32 or so hrs per week, most IHHS will not pay for inhome as care plan is too involved, too rigorous and needs 24/7 oversight which means in a facility. State (unless in NY or AK) are not going to pay for 24/7 inhome. Assessment team can look at his old NH chart along with recent hospitalization and if it seems he’s way way beyond what avg inhome can reasonably do, he will be over the hours max. The assessment will be he needs to move out of home and go back into a 24/7 facility.
Which if that happens, snowballs probably to the need to do a fresh application for LTC Medicaid as he has exited the NH & moved into a home. (It sounds like he was on LTC Medicaid to pay his NH bill - the $800 SS went to NH - so I’m assuming he was on LTC Medicaid LTC). If y’all’s State wants a new LTC application done, that means all new paperwork on him with its 3-5 yr financial look back, which falls on his POA to do. If Wf has not kept up with her dads banking, SSA annual payment notices, his life or burial insurance policies, etc having to get all this together in very short order to do a fresh LTC Application plus managing FIL care and marriage / house / kids will be beyond challenging. If her LC flairs up, who’s picking up the slack?
That you can do the majority of kiddos and your family’s household stuff and still work is amazing. But it can only go on for so long. If FIL moves in, kids will be secondary to her dad. Your somewhere on page 3 of her list. Resentment all around. Kids too young to express their concerns but it will effect them. Living with someone incontinent, with feeding tubes, smelly, frail, bedfast does not lend itself to happy childhood drawings. Forget any play dates or sleepovers happening. Health & welfare of y’all’s children should be her first priority. If she cannot do this, I think you should look into divorce with full custody; & get a good divorce attorney, no “mediation” bs. I’m guessing you were too nice last divorce….. get a pit bullie divorce atty this time. Good luck.
I setup some online counseling. I’ll probably start that this week. I signed up for the both of us, but I may have the first meeting by myself. I thought for a bit that this would help change her mind, but honestly I don’t think anything is going to change her mind at this point. She let it slip that FIL is being discharged from the hospital to the short term nursing home in about 5 days. I’m not sure how long he’ll be at the short term NH, but I believe it’s 30 days. Honestly, I’m so burned out just thinking about all of this it’s really exhausting. I’m seeing no plans being made with her or her family..so that just leaves one option and that’s her bringing him into our home. While I’m afraid of having yet another fight over the issue, I am going to bring it up this week and start with a discussion and then go from there. Thanks again to everyone who gave advice, I’ve read everyone’s posts and they have all helped out in one way or another. I’ll try to post another update before the weekend.
How about taking the rest of the family and go on vacation the first full week she brings him home? I’m not kidding. Take the kids and go stay at someone’s house some friends house. Let her feel the reality of the full brunt of caring for him alone at home. Also leave her a piece of paper that outlines the loss of income and how you will cut your living style in half to accommodate this.
i don’t know, I said it was a crazy idea.
I went on a deployment one time and when calling home they acted like they could care less so I stopped. It took about 10 days for them to “miss me” and show proper appreciation.
Gee, maybe stay away until she cries “uncle!”
hang in there, big hugs, and good luck to you.
"I’m not sure how long he’ll be at the short term NH, but I believe it’s 30 days."
A lot can happen in 30 days...
FIL himself may even decide on his path... (After the trials of a hospital stay, many are happy enough to get a warm bed, a hot meal & kindly staff - they are willing to settle).
You wife could visit. She could advocate for Dad's care needs, gain confidence in the staff, have a change of mind & work with the discharge planner/social worker towards the right permanent care accom.
Or you could visit Dad & let him know that although you care for him he cannot move in with you. Then arrange to speak up to the social worker & advise under no circumstances will FIL be discharged to your address. You live at this address & are saying no. If your wife says otherwise, then mediation with the social worker will be required. They may call this a Family Meeting, a Care Plan Meeting or by another name.
Although you are not a blood relative, not NOK, if your home is noted as the discharge destination it is basic common sense you must be OK with this.
I really applauded your decision for online counselling. Hopefully your wife can join in too.
You do have power here & can play that tough card above if needed but it will have consequences on your relationship. It would be ideal if your wife could understand WHY you are saying no. Why her ignoring your no could break your family.
And how does she think she will feel when he dies in your home because she couldn't keep up with his needs? Someone else mentioned this....how do you think a kid is going to react to moving back into a room where someone died?
People get sick or old and they die. As sad as it is, there is no getting around that. Blowing up your life to give someone an extra few weeks/months of living 'miserably' does not seem worth it.
If the nursing facility is not satisfactory, in your wife's opinion, then she could work on locating a better one by calling "A Place for Mom" or the Care Advisor on this site. If not successful with that, please get Adult Protective Services involved to get him to a good place that appeases your wife's fears.
The FIL the has been living in the nursing home for years. The wife didn't have a problem with it and did not insist on moving him into their home until now.
Kryptoid even said that his wife really wasn't all that close with her father and didn't even visit him in the nursing home. The rest of the family doesn't care much for him either because he wasn't a good person.
The sudden need to take the guy out of the nursing home and being him into the house and become his 24/7 caregiver seems fishy to me. It seems like the father is being used to push the husband away.
Make a plan for how you can manage without her or her income. You need this fall back to feel more secure yourself while the world spins out of control. (Smaller 2 bedroom apartment, find before and after school programs to allow you to work, etc.) If you own your home, do not hesitate to force a sale. She and Dad can also move into a 2 bedroom apartment.
If you need to implement your emergency plan, go after part of her (reduced) income for child support. You might need to let her sink before she realizes the actual situation she has created. She has the resources to dig herself out if she wants to. Remember, the kids come first.
Best case scenario, she actually gets Dad a little better; then what? Where does he go from there? Does he live with you forever? She really doesn't appreciate what she is doing with her unilateral decision: you are on the brink of losing your wife and your kids their mother. This is damage that cannot be undone. You are the kids lifeline. That is your first priority, because there is no one else.
With prayers that she will realize the impossibility of her plan having a good outcome, and be willing to listen to a counselor for the good of all of you.
The OP never mentioned that his wife doesn't care about the kids.
She's making a terrible mistake insisting that her father be taken from the NH and moved in with them. She's also being very stubborn about it and the price of that stubbornness may be the loss of her marriage and family.
So be it.
There's still no reason to play dirty and try to set her up.
If it comes down to divorce I cannot see how a judge could possibly allow the kids to live with their mother. Not when she is caregiving for an elderly invalid with dementia in house. She cannot care for the kids too.
Then the OP will not have to worry about getting by without her income because then she's paying court-orderd alimony and child support as she should in such an instance.
The OP should not try to set her up though because he still has live with himself.
The fact that she is a nurse also doesn't automatically give her any advantage - by that I mean it might give her a skill set but not an advantage to really do the job - because at the end of the day - she's not anymore able to remove herself emotionally than the rest of us. And the biggest advantage a nurse has usually is the fact that they aren't treating their own family members when they are applying that skill set. And when they are working - there are multiple nurses on duty in shifts. She is ONE person on ALL shifts - permanently. In her mind I'm sure she is thinking "I've taken care of multiple patients, I can take care of just my dad". But that's the unrealistic thinking that is going to be her downfall. She was never doing anything alone.
And that's what she has to be here. Because she isn't giving you any choice. It sounds like to me she intends to move her father in and expects the entire house to become a nursing home. Has she discussed her plan for AFTER he is there? Does she expect you and your 14 year old step son to assist in his care? Does she expect your children to give up activities so that she can be home with her father?
The way I see this breaking down is that she will take care of her father 24/7 and you will do...everything else - work, home, take care of the children. And you notice what is missing. Her relationship with you and your children.
Additionally- I have said this before on the forum. Unless you live in some massive home - which based on the fact that the kids will need to bunk together or grandpa is moving in with the 14 year old (ABSOLUTELY NOT) this is HUGELY disruptive to everyone. Does she even know what he is like round the clock? You mention that the last time you saw him he was basically unresponsive. Is he physically catatonic? Does he talk or make noises? Moan or groan? Is he physically able to move about on his own at all? How close are the bedrooms - would she have to be up all hours of the night or day changing him or feeding him? When does she intend to sleep? Is this going to be so disruptive that the kids aren't getting what they need - sleep at night? Could this potentially impact their education or health (mental or physical)? Could the fighting between you and mom escalate and be misunderstood by the 5 year old and become something else that he mentions at school? Not physical but it doesn't have to be for your child to misinterpret and say something at school. Children at that age don't always understand what is happening and can say things in such a way that teachers and school administrators are required by law to report it to Child Protective Services - things that in reality are totally innocent but that can be misinterpreted and then you have to go through the process of the added stress of a CPS and even an APS investigation to prove everything is actually ok.
Additionally - he has been in this state for how many years. Does she really think that is ALL the fault of nature vs nurture? She really believes that she can bring him into your home and reverse the damages to his health? She is willing to do that much damage to her life and her family and her marriage on a "what if" for someone that she didn't even have a great relationship with in the first place. The guilt is strong in this one.
I don't have an answer. But it doesn't sound like she can hear you through the FOG (fear, obligation, guilt)