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As a caregiver, I now think much more about planning for my own healthcare needs in my elder years. Does anyone have a good experience with long-term care insurance? Is it worth it?
My understanding is that long-term care is in trouble, as an industry, and that it's no longer possible to buy policies like those that were bought years ago. Howard Gleckman is a wonderfully sensible columnist who writes about this and other aging issues, and also works with think tanks on this issue: howardgleckman.com/2017/09/stand-alone-long-term-care-insurance-continues-fade-away
Hence one probably can't rely on how well LTC insurance worked for one's parents, and anyway, it seems that people end up with quite variable experiences, depending on the policy, the carrier, and their personal circumstances.
If you are concerned, consider learning more about policy and advocacy. Caring Across Generations (caringacross.org) is one newer organization trying to advocate for caregivers. As a society, we need to pull together, because left to their own, many people are getting clobbered by the cost and complexity and sheer workload.
I have no personal experience with it. We don't have it, neither my husband or I could afford the premiums when we were working. My Aunt who is 90 and in assisted living has it and she is happy with it. My girlfriend and her husband got it and it paid for him in memory care for 3 1/2 years. She is happy with it. I don't know details.
My aunt got hers through the military many years ago, and that policy might make a difference in benefits. My girlfriend told me it is like an insurance and it would pay up to $200,000. that was the option they purchased.
I have sold this product over the years, but since January 2015, Life Insurance has changed substantully, Check Out the Universal Life Policies. They now have Living Benefits that will take care of LTC needs
I convinced my folks to buy LTC insurance in the early 2000's. They bought a modest policy with 90 day waiting period & lower per day limits. The policy is difficult to interpret, but I managed to get mom's claim approved. It took from March 2017 to July 2017 to provide documentation before benefits began. They recently moved to assisted living & she gets $1650 per month. My husband & I bought policies in the 1990's & will continue to pay on them. We have no children (no guarantee kids would help you anyway!) so I believe this is the way to go. Of course, I don't know who's going to help me get the "necessary documentation" when I'm ill & debilitated. Someone needs to create a cottage industry by gathering & providing this documentation! Anyway, since we're all living longer, it makes sense to look at LTC as an option & have a non-biased elder law attorney help review policies & interpret them.
My dad had long term care insurance that he purchased at a young age. He had been in a beautiful assisted living facility for 2.5 years. The rent was approximately $5000. I believe the policy paid him $2500 a month. He had to pay the difference. Fortunately he was a very smart man and also had savings. Long term care also provides in home care but pays very little for it. Dad had in home care for awhile but it was only 4 hours a day. They pay more if in a facility. Yes, there is alot of paperwork and appointments. You have to submit the billing yourself. I would say long term care insurance is good to have. It worked out great for my dad. But I don't know all the details of these kind of policies. I would investigate throughly before getting one. Have a blessed day.
I've done a fair amount of research on long term care insurance. I'm sorry, I do not have any personal experience. One recurring theme I've found is the premiums increase frequently, to the point of being prohibitively expensive, and the insured simply has to cut their losses and drop the policy. Of course, no one can predict that, and you can't know that before it's too late....
It's certainly a gamble and YES!!!--the insurance company's *real job is "not to pay"--always. But what are the other viable options? Only Medicaid or a Continuing Care Retirement Community. CCRCs also have to "medically" accept you. If you have any kind of diagnosis, they won't take you, even if you're healthy. So, that brings me back to my previous point: the job of any "insurer," however that insurer may be disguised, is "not to pay." Good luck to all of us. I am a married mid-40s person with no kids in a high cost of living area and I have no idea what I will do when the time comes. I'm grateful that I have no interest in leaving an estate.
While expensive, it provides peace of mind knowing that these needs will be met if we need them down the road without depleting all of our resources. We are protected for 3-4 years, which we viewed as average nursing home stay. Much longer stay could still be devastating financially. The hope, as with most types of insurance, is that we stay healthy enough to never need it.
I am a member of the Knights of Columbus. They have been offering LTC for about 17 years. Our policies were purchased just shy of 20 years ago. We pay about $65.00 a month with $8000.00 a month benefit with guarantee purchase options every two years which we exercise about every four years, on my wife's policy. The math says over thirty years we'll pay out about $21000.00 in premiums. We live in the National Capitol Area, currently in our area, that amount of money would be eaten up in two and a half months. We bought in when there was no cap on the number of years, and amount will pay out on policies. New policies have a max five year cap now. I'd say it is the best investment that could be made, and the smartest thing I've ever done. Buying LTC from an insurance company with as high of ratings as the KofC has is a good way to spend your money when purchased when you are still in great health and young. No, I don't work for them, I am retired from the travel industry and do not work. My wife is in the field of education.
I echo everything Upstream wrote. My Mom paid $149/mo. for LTC insurance for many years. When she became seriously ill I tried for 18 mos. to convince the co. that she was entitled to benefits. So many hoops to jump through. When they finally approved her I was completely overwhelmed at all the documentation they were telling me to submit. Luckily my sister is an accountant and she handled filing the claims. I had bad-mouthed LTC ins. for quite some time but it ended up paying for itself many times over. But I can’t overemphasize that it would have been completely worthless without a dedicated person (not a senior with dementia) to handle all the paperwork.
I have to say YES so worth it. Of course, depending on the company the LTC is with and the actual policy that was drawn. I am DPOA for my mom who has dementia and if she didn’t have her LTC that my dad had set up for her years back it would have been awful for her as the standpoint of qualified care for her rapidly declining health. The idea here is reputable company! Check out a few then ask questions! I know Thrivent is extremely reputable and although some may disagree, it boils down to what you sign up for in your actual agreement. It’s worth a look into and I know with Thrivent (and no, I do not work for nor do I have family that does) they worked with us even when we decided to get our own policies as far as monthly payment, payouts, increase caps, etc. Ask all those questions. Plus they don’t harass with phone calls which was a plus for me and they answer any and all questions right away.
SelfishSiblings is right ... IF you can be disciplined to put the same $$$ the LTC would charge as a premium, and you keep it invested at "average" market returns (near 5%/year), you should come out ahead. Like any savings plan, if you fall off the boat, it won't work. Even better ... keep tabs on what premium increases would be and increase your savings contributions to match. In spite of the statistics on need for LTC, there are still plenty of anecdotes of people dying quickly. The insurers count on the averages, so people who die quickly make up for the ones who live longer. There are so many restrictions and requirements on opening an LTC claim, I'd rather be in control of my own money. One more benefit to LTC is that the assets held by the insurer are outside the control of the beneficiary, so the money can only be used under the terms of the policy - i.e., you can't be sued and have it taken away, a single extraordinary expense cannot deplete the policy. For the most part, you are at the greatest risk if you are in the no-man's-land between poor and wealthy. Poor enough, and you'll get whatever Medicaid will cover. Wealthy enough and you buy whatever you want. In the middle, we roll the dice and take our chances, hoping it will work out reasonably for us in the end.
My parents bought LTC insurance in the 1990s. The policy they purchased is awesome but (from what I hear), new policies are not as good. It has no lifetime limits. I had to place my dad in an ALF this year at a cost of $5,500/month. The policy pays 100% of that (after a 90 day elimation period). The claims process for the policy was lengthy and detailed. It took a LOT of leg work. But the policy began paying and we are so grateful.
As I stated, the claims procession took a lot of work. I had to run around town with various forms to be filled out by different medical professionals that had seen my dad during the past year. It took at least three months to before my dad's care was approved. Therefore, it seems to me the policy is useless unless you are sure that you have someone to designate to prepare all of the paperwork and submit the claim for you down the road. Also, I have to submit monthly bills and occasional forms to the insurance company to keep this policy paying out monthly. They do not pay the ALF directly, but send a check to me, that I have to deposit and then pay the ALF. Do not buy a LTC policy if you don't have someone you are sure will be there to do the leg work for the claim.
I don't see the point in getting a LTC policy that is not very comprehensive. If it only pays a portion of the cost of care, you will still drain your assets down. My dad's sister went into an ALF a year before he did. She is on Medicaid and honestly I think there were less hoops for her to jump through and all of her costs are paid for, no questions asked and no follow-up work on her part.
Long term care is great, when it pays! Many insurance companies are denying stays in Assisted Living Facilities, even when they had previously been approved, to lower their claim exposure! Know your contract!!
Fir me this is one of the most fearful and complicated issues facing all of us-all aging populations and especially those with a dementia diagnosis. I have attended several support group meetings where the costs of this insurance has been discussed as well as the skyrocketing costs of independent and assisted living, let alone memory care, which can cost anywhere from $15,000 to $30, 000 per month. Just independent living can be $5,000 for the apartment and meals and this goes up if it becomes assisted living. Every time someone has to "assist", ie, manage your meds, do a well check, help you to the dining room, my friend had an added cost of $75 per assist. She was in a very lovely place, but went thru her money very fast. My biggest regret is not buying long term care insurance when young enough to afford the premiums. Now it is too late. If you can somehow qualify for medicaide and IF it remains as a viable assist as our so-called "entitlements" are gutted, the qualifications are very very strict. You cannot have ANY assets-at least not in CA. No valuable posessions-jewelry, artwork, car, savings-nothing. My advice-see an attorney and become knowledgeable right away. I speak as a wife whose husband has dementia and it is progressing rapidly. I am not in great health at all, but so far I can manage, though not without meant challenges. There are no Veteran's benefits for this because my husband did not serve during the one day required during the dates of conflict. There will be nowhere we can go that is affordable. This is our own fault-no one did this to us, except for the huge market losses we took back in 2008. We lost our home to a short sale, and were recouping when a son became very ill and that took our savings, which were pretty minimal at that. So what I am saying, is that whatever you can afford, do it. Do not count on medicaide!
I can only speak for my mom. She paid for it for 20 years and I thought it was a not a good investment, but never said anything. She was in her 70's. Now she is in an Assisted Living that cost 5k a month. She gets paid for the insurance 3600. She would never have been able to be in such a nice place, ( which isn't a palace by any means but it's nice) if she only relied on her SS.
From my POV, long term care insurance is far from perfect, but a wonderful idea if you can afford the premiums. Whether it's worth it or not it depends on the insurance company, and on your state. There is a type of LTC policy called a Long Term Care Partnership policy, which will pay for assisted living, live-in care, nursing home care, etc., and also (importantly) protect your loved one's assets from having to be "spent down" to qualify for Medicaid when the insurance coverage period runs out. The reason this is important is that people may need to utilize their LTC coverage long before their final years, and the period during which they pay out is always limited. So eventually you may need Medicaid anyway. The availability of good quality Medicaid-covered care also depends on what is available in your area and what their rules and requirements are for accepting Medicaid residents. In my area, most high quality assisted living facilities will not accept Medicaid residents unless they've lived in the building under "private pay" for at least a year (one -- an otherwise excellent facility that catered to couples where one resident needs just basic ADL's and the other needs memory care, which would have been perfect for my parents -- wanted FOUR years of private pay before they would accept Medicaid). Without LTC insurance to pay for those "private pay" years, you would have to go to a facility that accepts Medicaid right away. Depending on your area, they may be few and far between and the quality of care (or the environment, food, activities, memory care, etc.) might not be as good.
Like any insurance...it's only good if you need it but you can't not have it. I applied for a LTC policy for my mom when she was in her 70s. She's now 93 and has Alzheimer's dementia. She's had a full time aide living with her since May. The policy pays for that and, mathematically speaking, my mother will have to live through next summer to recoup the cost that went into paying premiums. That being said, her policy is a good one that pays enough per day to cover the cost of either a family caregiver, an outside aide or towards a nursing facility. Having an aide is a better use for mom as she is able to stay in her apartment and we are very lucky that the woman who is living with her is wonderful. That being said, should my mother not live past the summer, the insurance company will really not have paid anything toward her care. I also got a LTC policy when my mom did so the premiums were lower and I have better options because I don't want my daughter having to worry about dealing with me. I really wish our country had better end of life options. So...bottom line, it's all a gamble.
LTC insurance are getting better meaning now you can use them as investments if you do not use the funds you have invested. In the past LTC would be use it or loose it kind of deals. I have a home care agency and I help people who have LTC insurance. It is always a relief when they do as this often lift a burden from their shoulders and are able to get the care without worrying about the money. I am planning on hosting an event with one of the company that does offer LTC insurance so we can talk to people like you and answer your questions. Another thing, I am in my early 50's but I do think that I will purchase it for myself to make sure that I have a financial cushion if something happens to me and I do need home care. If you get home care early enough, you can avoid going to a facility and that is what I am planning on doing when the time comes.
Reading all this saddened me. Both my folks have dementia and don’t have a LTC policy. Facility costs in their area run between $6-9k per person per month. Since their savings (for a rainy day) would run out rather quickly at that rate, I kept wishing they had purchased LTC Insurance. I went to get that for myself when I was 52. The premiums for me were $500 a month at that time which were a financial burden since I was plowing through my savings by not working and caring for my folks (unpaid and not eligible for assistance because being paid was based on the assets of the folks and not the caretaker) So I didn’t get the Insurance for myself. So the costs for care and for insurance both will leave me screwed when the time comes. I’m not an embryo or wealthy, and agree that the future will leave me, along with many others in a sad position. Knowing what this illness has done to my parent’s child(me)emotionally, physically, spiritually and financially, made me determined not to burden my kids with me later. LTC isn’t a feasible option, having enough saved (after using what took 30 years to save in 3 years), isn’t looking like a realistic promising option either. Who could ever have predicted the costs that may be needed for medical care down the line? The lethal drug thing is my plan too.
Long term care is only worth it if you are strapped and have no really other options when continuing care or if they really don't want to go to a facility but you should pay into it sooner rather than later so you can extend the benefit cap. My gmas policy had up to quarter million in benefit. But the thing with that was they relied on LTC and she is also living off of my late grandfathers s.s. which isn't gonna last. I am no longer her caregiver so I have no clue as to whom is gonna send in hours since I am the only name on the policy along with my grandmother. My mom(gmas daughter) would split the check with us but she never really did ANY care. So as things piled up I felt like a triad sending in hours when the check got split 3 ways and her benefits were being sucked dry. It is only beneficial when it is used sparingly and for rainy days. I feel so bad that we reaped benefits when she needs it when sh** hits the fan. We had State farm so it is most likely more expensive policy but from my experience they have been very helpful and I had no problems with any of MY policies (car etc) except that I am trying to unemesh myself from all my mpthers joint accounts. Weigh out pros and cons of your situation and if it's for further future be sure the money is used wisely. Hope this helps
My sis and her husband had it. Paid on it for 15-20 years. He was paralyzed and in a SNF for about a year until she died at home alone. Then, he wanted to move home, where he lived about 45 days. The LTC policy, which had a 6-month waiting period, eventually paid approximately the amount they had paid in premiums, about $25,000. You can't buy coverage at that rate now. Like all insurance, it's just a bet as to whether you will use it. Our financial advisor recently pitched us a policy that included $100,000 in life insurance when both of us have died, so if you want to be sure you leave something for your estate, that could be attractive. We have also considered buying into a CCRC, but then you are limited by their location, services they can provide, and their financial stability.
Thankfully my mother's LTC insurance finally kicked in, after she paid premiums for years, but it was difficult to get them to acknowledge her need for care. If she could lift a spoon to her mouth without assistance and pull up her elastic-waist pants after using the toilet, they noted her as independent, even though there was no way she could safely live on her own due to cognitive issues that gravely impacted her judgment, ability to provision and prepare food for herself, etc. Her dementia finally worsened to the point that she flunked a cognitive assessment that they gave (plus I think the assessor who evaluated her was sympathetic). Like all insurance companies, LTC care insurance providers are actively looking for reasons to not pay benefits, which makes the policies less of a sure thing than we might imagine.
My 88 yr old mother's LTC policy covers nurse aide but not RN visits. She is medically fragile but still capable of ADLs so she doesn't need the aides yet. She has paid on that policy for years and gets very little out of it.
My insurance broker tried to sell me a LTC plan with the promise that it would "protect my assets". I have no kids of my own so that doesn't interest me. My plan is to sell or rent my house if I have to enter some kind of facility.
My experience with a LTC was not good. My parents both took out a LTC policy in the 90's. My father died at home with cancer and they would not pay for any care as they said Hospice had been called in and that indicated it was not long term care. My mother is in a nursing home with late stage Alzheimer's. This time they said it has to be a skilled nursing facility that has an RN on duty at night. I was unable to find one that fit that requirement. They have an RN on duty during the day but only on call during the night. My parents thought they had everything planned out for their senior years. After all the savings, etc was gone we had to put Mom on Medicaid. After seeing the kind of care she gets thru this, I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
One thought about long-term care comes to mind: we are told that something like a third of people will need such care, but what we aren't told is that many of them might be there a relatively short time (let's say, a couple months) to recover after a surgery, or due to a terminal condition or sudden decline just before death--both of these situations are obviously different from the widow or widower who spends 5 years there and the financial consequences are markedly different.
The odds of a person needing some sort of extended care, whether it be at home or in a facility are about 70 percent. In other words, 7 out of 10 people will need long term care. Yes, long term care insurance is expensive. That's because long term care is expensive. Not only is it expensive, the costs are going up every year. If you self-fund, you need to have a half million set aside for one person, a million for two people. If you plan on going on Medicaid, you should remember that every Tom, Dick, and Sally has the same plan. How long do you think Medicaid will last when all the seniors want to drink out of that cup? As a former insurance agent, I met people every day who said they didn't need/want insurance. I also met people every day who desperately wanted insurance, but couldn't get it because they waited until they needed it. My advice - get it early when it is much cheaper. Don't wait.
I recently lost my husband to Alzheimers. He was in a Memory Care Facility and I paid about $3600 out of pocket every month for his care. He was over 80 and did not qualify for LTC when I bought mine. I still have my LTC policy but it only pays up to a years and I'm also wondering if I would be better off putting the money in a money market or some other investment. My older sister tells me to keep my LTC policy as it is like "gold" if I can afford it.
Good Luck getting. Turned down in late 40's by multiple companies because i had arthritis in a single joint. Would only qualify if I got a knee replacement which at time medical insurance would not cover. Since I have become a caregiver for Dad who has LT but they wont pay me since I'm a direct relative and live in same household. Dad keeps paying and is saving for a rainy day. He will be 93 soon. Dads company went under as well but it was protected and in conservership. I would have wasted my money if I had gotten because I could have not paid premiums. I would say create your own investment account for medical.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
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APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
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howardgleckman.com/2017/09/stand-alone-long-term-care-insurance-continues-fade-away
Hence one probably can't rely on how well LTC insurance worked for one's parents, and anyway, it seems that people end up with quite variable experiences, depending on the policy, the carrier, and their personal circumstances.
If you are concerned, consider learning more about policy and advocacy. Caring Across Generations (caringacross.org) is one newer organization trying to advocate for caregivers. As a society, we need to pull together, because left to their own, many people are getting clobbered by the cost and complexity and sheer workload.
My aunt got hers through the military many years ago, and that policy might make a difference in benefits. My girlfriend told me it is like an insurance and it would pay up to $200,000. that was the option they purchased.
He had been in a beautiful assisted living facility for 2.5 years. The rent was approximately $5000. I believe the policy paid him $2500 a month. He had to pay the difference. Fortunately he was a very smart man and also had savings. Long term care also provides in home care but pays very little for it. Dad had in home care for awhile but it was only 4 hours a day. They pay more if in a facility. Yes, there is alot of paperwork
and appointments. You have to submit the billing yourself. I would say long term care insurance is good to have. It worked out great for my dad.
But I don't know all the details of these kind of policies. I would investigate throughly before getting one.
Have a blessed day.
It's certainly a gamble and YES!!!--the insurance company's *real job is "not to pay"--always. But what are the other viable options? Only Medicaid or a Continuing Care Retirement Community. CCRCs also have to "medically" accept you. If you have any kind of diagnosis, they won't take you, even if you're healthy. So, that brings me back to my previous point: the job of any "insurer," however that insurer may be disguised, is "not to pay." Good luck to all of us. I am a married mid-40s person with no kids in a high cost of living area and I have no idea what I will do when the time comes. I'm grateful that I have no interest in leaving an estate.
One more benefit to LTC is that the assets held by the insurer are outside the control of the beneficiary, so the money can only be used under the terms of the policy - i.e., you can't be sued and have it taken away, a single extraordinary expense cannot deplete the policy. For the most part, you are at the greatest risk if you are in the no-man's-land between poor and wealthy. Poor enough, and you'll get whatever Medicaid will cover. Wealthy enough and you buy whatever you want. In the middle, we roll the dice and take our chances, hoping it will work out reasonably for us in the end.
As I stated, the claims procession took a lot of work. I had to run around town with various forms to be filled out by different medical professionals that had seen my dad during the past year. It took at least three months to before my dad's care was approved. Therefore, it seems to me the policy is useless unless you are sure that you have someone to designate to prepare all of the paperwork and submit the claim for you down the road. Also, I have to submit monthly bills and occasional forms to the insurance company to keep this policy paying out monthly. They do not pay the ALF directly, but send a check to me, that I have to deposit and then pay the ALF. Do not buy a LTC policy if you don't have someone you are sure will be there to do the leg work for the claim.
I don't see the point in getting a LTC policy that is not very comprehensive. If it only pays a portion of the cost of care, you will still drain your assets down. My dad's sister went into an ALF a year before he did. She is on Medicaid and honestly I think there were less hoops for her to jump through and all of her costs are paid for, no questions asked and no follow-up work on her part.
Know your contract!!
Like all insurance, it's just a bet as to whether you will use it.
Our financial advisor recently pitched us a policy that included $100,000 in life insurance when both of us have died, so if you want to be sure you leave something for your estate, that could be attractive.
We have also considered buying into a CCRC, but then you are limited by their location, services they can provide, and their financial stability.
My insurance broker tried to sell me a LTC plan with the promise that it would "protect my assets". I have no kids of my own so that doesn't interest me. My plan is to sell or rent my house if I have to enter some kind of facility.
Since I have become a caregiver for Dad who has LT but they wont pay me since I'm a direct relative and live in same household. Dad keeps paying and is saving for a rainy day. He will be 93 soon. Dads company went under as well but it was protected and in conservership.
I would have wasted my money if I had gotten because I could have not paid premiums.
I would say create your own investment account for medical.