65 year old mother with some memory and dementia problems is in the care daughter only by vulture of the fact that the elder person lives in a house owned by the daughter. There is no guardianship or conservator involved. Daughter is using this living arrangement to deny full access to the elder person by screening calls, intercepting mail, covertly preventing elder person from answering the phone, and openly and blatantly attempting to turn the affections of this mother against one or more of her sons. Yes, there is a sibling rivalry, and the daughter is using the mother, at the mother's emotional, psychological, and possibly physical health to boost her own ego. Phone calls to this mother's private phone line go unanswered, and it is only by calling the daughters phone will you be able to talk to the elder IF the daughter deems you worthy, and are not a friend of, or otherwise associated with, the brother she despises so much that she will do this to her own mother. The son in this case has always had contact with his mother, has for the last 2 and a half years daily communications with his mother, and has for the same period of time had on-person contact no less than once a month, almost always twice a month and frequently more than twice a month. Mother has live in daughters house for over a year and it has only been the last 30 - 90 days the daughter has gone to these extremes.
Even a "neutral" outsider would be preferable to the continued abused inflected upon my mother by her daughter. I am seeking suggestions on how to legally prevent the daughter from blocking/interfering with personal and phone contact with my mom so that amongst other things, I can monitor for signs of actual actionable psychical abuse. I hope for some ideas to be armed with when I do go see a lawyer, which, even though I can't afford, will have to hire.
Thanks
POA does not give Sister the authority to screen Mom's visitors and callers.
Mother is the only one who can designate a POA. A decent lawyer will question her and determine that she does understand what she is doing and that she is not doing it under duress. It might be difficult to successfully accuse Sister of a crime if a lawyer has been involved. If Sister uses a DIY approach, that may be another matter.
Competency is determined by a court, usually informed by doctor statements. It is not based on what has or hasn't been signed by the person.
My heart goes out to you, your mother, and your other siblings if Sister is indeed Narcissistic. I think the only way you can fight someone like that is legally. Think through what you want to achieve by visiting a lawyer. I would imagine that unrestricted visitation rights would be on your list. What else? Have very specific goals in mind before you consult an attorney.
I understand what a POA can and can not do. I had been researching that before this mess ever happened, but now that I have been cut off from my mother there is no way I can pursue it. I also understand that firing a POA is a lot easier than getting one designated. Again I would need access to my mother, and who knows what this... her daughter would do next if that were to happen. I would not risk my mother's health to do something like that until there were safeguards in place to protect my mother.
I already have unrestricted "visitation" rights and so does my mother. It is the daughter that is interfering, quelling or otherwise preventing my mother and myself from exercising of those rights.
Free/low cost lawyers are not going to do any more than they have to and some may even say there is nothing that can be done unless I am prepared with facts, case law, specific state/federal law... and even then if it looks like it is going to take "too much time" I'll get blown off. Yah a bit cynical but it's not like there is a whole lot of competition to get these free/low cost cases and the resources to obtain free/low cost legal aid/assistance/advice is like only 1 or 2. to obtain.
Sorry for rambling and my apologies to any attorneys that do not fit my generalization about lawyers.
Thanks for the kind words.
This state does provide forms and instructions, and before all this crap started with the daughter I had considered becoming my mother's POA Getting all the necessary people in place to meet the required criteria, and stand up to the challenge her daughter would be sure to make, was proving to be problematic and I didn't get it done. Again, my bad. :(
Daughter becoming POA however will satisfy the accountability I was demanding when daughter was writing checks to herself and drawing cash from the account. I will be all over her forcing her to have verifiable documentation for every penny that is drawn from my mother's account. Give her enough rope....
If you are doing zero wrong you should have zero worry, but to keep peace in the family and avoid any disharmony, I would suggest running any big changes or major expenditures past the other sibs to see how they feel about it. At least then it wouldn't be a surprise or shock to them if they don't like it.
The MAJOR problem here, the the forced seclusion and alienation of my mother from friends and family is yet to be solved. Younger brothers that only occasionally contacted my mother in the past, may now be getting involved because they too are getting no answer when they call my mother's private phone. Older brother that lives out of state may be working against me. I hope to hear more about possible strategies or solutions to this abuse/problem.
It's always a shame when brothers and sisters don't get along. Your sister may be doing perfectly well by your mother, and of course, there are expenses involved and she will have to spend some money. That's what your mother's money is for. It's just that you don't like being out of the loop.
It's not picnic caregiving for elders. There are a lot of emotional and physical things going on that your sister is going to have to deal with for her ownself, in addition to the care of your mother. If she is constantly second-guessed and hammered with questions from her brothers, then she may react by withdrawing. That's not proper, but it might be self-defensive. Cut her some slack for a while, play nice and see if things change. It may take a while, time passes at different speeds for some people than for others.
Because Mom isn't in her private home anymore, access may be a little bit more on your sister's terms than you like. It isn't always convenient to have people, even a brother, come and go at will. Sometimes phone calls come at awkward times. There are baths, naps, meals, therapy sessions, all kinds of reasons why Mom can't talk on the phone right now. Ask for her to call you back when it's convenient to talk. Offer to give your sister some respite time. Bet she would love that. Make the offer to be at her choice and she'll appreciate it even more. Call some time just to talk to sis. Ask how mom is, but don't make a big deal out of talking to her. Sometimes we overlook the caregiver and forget that they have feelings too. I was reminded of this a few years ago, when sis would call and I would automatically hand the phone to mom. Sis said "hey, sometimes I just want to talk to you".
Anyway, I wish you good luck with whatever you decide to do. There are no winners in the sibling wars. Sorry this is so long, and of course, it is only an opinion.
Here's my take on it: your sister is using her control over access to your mom as a power play over you. Some people can't resist abusing any little bit of power and control they are entrusted with. I think your sister knows you want to be actively involved in your mom's life and so by acting as the self-designated gatekeeper, she is using her control over your mom to squeeze you out. This is how undue influence works...the sibling that has all the access uses every opportunity to alienate you from your mom. It's very covert and insidious...she whispers negative things about you in your mom's ear, eye rolls, snide remarks, intercepts cards and letters you send to your mom, fails to tell your mom you called, tells your mom she is the "only one that cares", reminds your mom that you haven't called in a while, etc. In 1,001 ways, day in and day out, she convinces your mom that you just don't care about her like she does. It's payback for sibling issues from the past I believe. It's desperately wanting to be the favored child. It's usually the one that has accomplished the least in life, so they feel very needing of approval and attached to the parent(s) because they are still dependent on them. But she fails to see how much she is hurting your mom in the process of trying to exclude you. Complicating matters further, if there is a large estate involved, then the sibling steps up her game even more ruthlessly to destroy your relationship with your mother in hopes of hijacking your potential inheritance as well. That way it's a real home-run for the controlling sibling.
So your choices are to 1) Just let your sister have what she wants or 2) fight for your right to be in your mom's life.
After giving my options some serious thought I decided on option #1. I decided that all that would come of a legal battle and/or involving APS would be that my mom might end up in the care of a stranger. She would put the blame for the whole nasty battle squarely on me. I decided since she is happy with this arrangement I would butt out and let my sister "win". I have emotionally detached from my mom enough to have sort of a "take it or leave it" attitude when it comes to contact. I still call her every week or so, but am never surprised if she doesn't answer. Last time I called both her land line and cell phone, she answered neither and I couldn't leave a message because both mailboxes were full. So I went on with my day and tried again a few days later. No problem. If I get concerned that it's been a while I email or call my brother and ask him how she's doing. He keeps loosely in touch with her and lives in the same city. All my siblings live there so I'm not too worried about my mom not getting enough care from me, since I can't do much for her from a state away. I do send her cards and gifts for special occasions. I just took my involvement and emotional attachment to her down a few notches. My sister can deal with it without my unwanted input and that way we're all happy.
I know how torn you must feel between wanting to do all you can for your mother, staying in her life, and not wanting to rock the boat. But the reality is that your sister is in the driver's seat and you are locked in the trunk. If your mother is happy with that arrangement then I would just go with it. Your sister will fight like a badger until you give her what she wants, and then don't be too surprised if she doesn't want it anymore. No difference than toddlers in the playroom...one will fight a toy away from the other, then a minute later the toy is sitting in the corner by itself as the "winner" no longer wants it. Sad that they put their own mother in the middle of a tug-of-war.
TXCAMPER... Yah I guess this is getting to be rather lengthily so I’ll provide a quick rundown on the situation and also answer some of your questions/concerns that were not previously addressed.
The phone is a hard wired line that I installed myself. It hangs in the wall and had an extra long cord on the handset so my mother can sit in her chair while talking. This phone and the phone I had installed at her previous residence received a call from me, and up until recently was answered by my mom EVERY DAY. Reason for hard line was that if she set the phone down to go do whatever, she could follow the cord to find where she had set it down. It never got lost between the cushions, buried under papers, dropped on floor and kicked under furniture, and the battery never goes dead. She had, and I was intending to get her a low cost replacement, a cell that I tried to make sure she always took with her whenever she left the house. Her private phone in her private space (not as private as she wants) did not disturbed or intrude upon others, and gave my mother the independence and freedom of will to make and receive calls from whoever and whenever she wanted. The other people living in the house only have cell phones and when they leave the house, so does the cell which would, if she didn’t have her own private line, leave my mother without any way to communicate with the outside world. This may be an option for your MIL. W/O the bells and whistles, and with the senior discount, the Land Line is rather inexpensive (my mother’s bill is $11.08 per month) and by FAR beats the cost of cell... unless MIL makes a lot of long distance calls.
I managed my mother’s funds for over 2 years. I know what the expenses are and made sure my mother had petty cash to spend for the everyday things (cash that seemed to vanish even when nobody else took my mom shopping), and money for food in the form if a gift card to limit amounts spent feeding the whole damn house. The problem was cash being drawn in amounts greater than the amount due on the bills that were suppose to be paid by check, that were instead being paid by money-order, credit card?
Even though it wouldn’t have hurt the daughter a damn bit to do things like clean my mother’s living space once in a while, she was not pressured to do so, and I was in fact working with the Health Care Coordinator to get a Homemaker to come in to do cleaning and other miscellaneous things. Even though the daughter more or less turned the place into a “flop house” for extra income, efforts to secure outside help for my mother were checked, blocked, derailed and otherwise prevented from happening because she (the daughter) didn’t want strangers coming into the house. Except for providing a meal once in a while, and doing whatever she volunteered to do, the daughter was expected to be, and was for the most part nothing more than a landlord.
Though for the most part the daughter unaware, my mother always knew when I was coming over. I always called my mom 2 hours before I intended to be there (at mom’s request because she said it takes her that long to get ready), when I left the house so she would know I was on my way, and when I arrived so she would know I was coming in the door. When the daughter changed the code on the door lock and would not tell me the code, it was necessary for my mom to unlock the door for me. I never wander around other areas of the house. I came in and we went down to my mother’s living area. The only common area I passed through to get to my mother’s room was the kitchen. The daughter is not “inconvenienced” in any way.
If you restrict access to your MIL to only those you feel are worthy, then you are a jailer not a host. You sound like a host. Is my mother’s daughter a jailer?
In the interest of self preservation, you may just have to back off for a while. It won't be easy. I too have a similar situation with a loved one; it has been going on for so many years now it seems almost normal.
I agree with your thoughts regarding the telephone, it is so difficult for the elderly to talk on those flat cell phones. We keep an old desk style phone for mom's use.
Good luck with this situation. I'll be praying your sister wakes up tomorrow with a different attitude.
My mom doesn’t have enough years left for me to just back off. I don’t have enough years left for me to just back off. Little changes for the good when people just back off. Yes I have been forced into self preservation mode decades ago. I am broken never to be the same. Then it was about my children. Now it is about my mother. I will not let my pain overwhelm me during this ordeal.
If your situation has been going on for so long that it seems almost normal, then you have become acclimated. Just another part of life that goes by, mostly unnoticed and with little or no concern on your part.
Oh... I would ever pray for anything bad to happen to anyone, but if the daughter were to NOT (literally) wake up tomorrow, I would not be too terribly sad.
I'm not saying there's not some other problem, here, but just reading all this, I'm not sure I've read anything that makes it sound like something else.
With that in-mind, you can do what my family did which was to get a lawyer to get it straightened-out. Unfortunately, my mother doesn't have much money and it does eat into what little they have left, but it did make the legal issues more clear. On the other hand, it didn't make anyone happy. The sibling issues remain, no-one is happy, and the misery continues. The only good part is that when one person claims abuse or wants to sue or whatever, everyone else knows what the real situation is and either pays attention or doesn't, depending whether it's a real issue or not. When there's any doubt, we throw it back onto the lawyer for my poor mother to spend more money on.
By the way, my mother has a simple estate that she could easily have done on her own in a will but paid the lawyer to handle it so that no-one could claim there was any influence by one party or another once she passes away. Well, as the lawyer points-out, anyone can take the will to court if they want to, but it's unlikely they'd get any traction on that.
Fast rundown: Mother 85 not 65. Up until the recent events I have been on the phone with my mom EVERY DAY for the past 2-1/2 years with conversations lasting I'd guess an average of 1 hour long. I have visited my mom to take care of personal business and to take her shopping at LEAST twice a week for the past 1-1/2 years. These visits were often in excess or 10 hours long. This sibling rivalry is nothing new and had, up until recently, no impact in my visits/phone calls or the way daughter treated my mother.... or so I thought anyway. I now realize there was some stuff for a few months leading up to this that I ignored. I had for the last 2 years assisted my mother with her finances, and it was when, at my mothers request, I attempted to again gain control of my mothers finances that the daughter took the rivalry to new heights and crossed the sacred boundary of mother/offspring relationships. You Don't Mess With The Relationship Between Parent And Child!
A little reading on abuse may be beneficial to you geo123. If the daughter is doing something to cause a elder/vulnerable adult view normal living as they have known it, as something that is now "not worth the hassle" fits the definition of a person that is being abused, and when this something is causing the VP (vulnerable person) to become isolated and alienated from friends and family, be it incidental or by design, and even of the VP due to medical/mental conditions does not even realize they are being abuse, this is a CRIME in the eyes of the law. Proving it is difficult when, as in the case of most all abuse, the VP will not admit to any abuse and will reject the persons trying to help them.
I don't have the time or the space here to outline all the subtle signs an investigator must detect during interviews.
I was looking for maybe an end run to resolve the issue rather than hiring a lawyer. It would be MY money spent, not my moms, and I am a poor person that can't afford this crap and the daughter knows it. That is why the daughter she is using my mother, nay abusing my mother to... get back at me? punish me? feed her narcissistic ego?
BTW... having a conversation lasting just short of an hour and a half with a person that "does not want to talk to you" that "upsets you" that has you so "scared" that you "don't even know how to do anything" would seem rather odd or a bit strange to any normal person. Yah... I got lucky one day and my mom happened to be near her phone when it rang, and the daughter was not in my mother's room.
What did you do to unsuccessfully "get it straightened-out"?
He does a lot of elder law and says these types of issues are common in the families that come to him.
One thing he does is that he will meet separately with my mother. When one person has some serious-sounding accusation to make, he will meet individually with her. He says he does deal with people with dementia enough to know that they have good and bad days and say different things at different times and he does try to keep that in-mind when he talks to her.
I should also add that she is more honest with the lawyer than she is with us. She doesn't like to hurt our feelings. So, if we call her up and say something like, "I don't hurt your feelings, do I? I'm not mean to you, am I? You're not afraid of me, am I?" she will insist that that's not true and hang on the conversation. He's better at asking her questions in a neutral way than we are. We get a better picture of her opinion on tough questions when we have him talk to her and he's a friendly and neutral figure to her.
Although, I should add that most of the laws that will apply in these situations will be in the state of the person being taken care of.
What are you, GEO123 going to do? Even if you forget you even have a mom because it is not worth the trouble, your mother is still going to be under thumb of this person. Will still be influenced, controlled, manipulated buy this person because this person has the power, and she LIKES it... much the same situation as in a battered wife household.
What do you do geo123? What do you do....
Now, if you're going to ask what I SHOULD do (if I and my family were reasonable and level-headed) would be to step back and calm down. Next, probably stop to think that the person on the other side is as upset as I am and that accusing them of anything isn't making the situation better.
But, as I said, in my family, we usually drive the other person right over the edge. That's just how we roll. That's why we can't get anything done without a lawyer. And, once again, my mother has a pitiful amount of money that she hates spending on the lawyer, but that's where we're at with things.
Why GEO, is your MOM having to spend HER money on lawyers because YOU and other FAMILY members are dysfunctional as a family?
It doesn't help me, nor answer my original question, but my answer to YOU is: You and the rest of your dysfunctional family all pay for your own (insert you're own colorful additive here) lawyer fees. This should reduce but not likely eliminate the family bickering, and give your mother some solace with the fact that, she is not (financially) paying for it.
I'm glad to report that no, no it isn't what most people do. It is certainly not what happens in my family.
Your family is dysfunctional. That's how you roll. If you want to break out of that mode I think that would take some counselling. It is tough, but it could be done -- at least I see a lot of people on this forum who have healed or at least improved a lot after being raised in a toxic environment.