I don't know if anyone else can relate to this - my mother is still working, and lives in a massive house with a massive property. It's full of junk. I mean, FULL. My sister and her kids are living with her, partly out of necessity, partly to help out, and I travel over 2 hours every weekend to try to help with the property, but we're both sick, we both have disabled kids, and she's actually healthy. My sister recently had a nervous breakdown, anxiety attacks, and has several very serious health issues, and I have cervical cancer, arthritis, and a host of other issues. The electricity in parts of the house has stopped working, and I don't know how to make her hire someone - she keeps asking me to get a friend of mine to drive down to fix it - for free! She does have some mobility issues but refuses to accept them (though they're a fine excuse for not doing the shopping, most of the cooking, organizing things, etc.). In a perfect world, she'd sell the house (which she's been saying she was going to do for about 20 years now, it's always "I want to sell this house in the next 2 years, so 'this' has to be cleaned up/cleared out/fixed/redone" but they're still there. If she sold the house, at least she could get an apartment and my sister could afford to live on her own - I really don't think my mother realizes how much she leans on my sister and I. She's perfectly capable of living on her own, but leans on EVERYONE, including her friend's husbands, to get things done for her. I'm exhausted - downright exhausted - mentally and physically, from the things going on in my own life as a single mom, but this travelling is killing me, and my sister definitely has the worst of it. Nothing is ever done 'right,' she gets upset if she thinks my sister spent money on things she shouldn't have (even though she works full time too) and I have gotten to the point where I even considered moving back to take the load off her. She's selfish and demanding, and has anxieties about just about everything - so you can't do ANYTHING without asking several times, just to be sure, and even then she gets upset. 'Put this lightbulb in the upstairs bedroom, and this one in the kitchen.' So you do. Then she changes her mind, but instead of saying 'I changed my mind' she says 'no, you put them in the wrong rooms!' It's literally that bad. I'm still hurt by the abuse that went on when I was a kid, and while I feel an obligation to help get the house ready to 'sell,' and I made a promise to my father on his deathbed that I'd always take care of her, I feel like my life, and the lives of my kids (and my sister and her kids) are being sacrificed - it feels like a continuation and even a worsening of the abuse I grew up with. Are there such things as 'Elderly Interventions?' I feel like there should be - an expert who can sit down with the whole family and point out the realities then work to a solution. But my mother doesn't live in reality - she hops off to work, then to volunteer, pops in for naps and dinner, then when she's not busy, orders my sister and I around like we're slaves - and never, never says thank you ONCE. It's like she gets HER happiness by helping others, then demands to be treated like she's too old to do anything in her own home. That house is 40 years old and hasn't been maintained. How do we say 'it's impossible, mom - let it go and sell it?'
I can’t think of a better way to say it. Is it awkward and uncomfortable to do? Yes, but do you and your sister want to continue to be her slaves? It sounds like you have had enough and have done way more than your share.
So, take a deep breath. Have the talk that needs to be done. Express that you are grateful that she helped the two of you out when you needed help but that it’s time, actually past time for making changes in lifestyles for all of you. Tell her that you were happy to help her out but it is becoming too much for you. You have other responsibilities that you must attend to.
There comes a time when a large home is no longer needed and if it isn’t maintained it becomes a money pit too.
Best wishes to you and your family.
Your slavery to her needs and wants will stop when YOU decide to stop.
Mom: I want/need you to blah blah....
You: Sorry, I can't do it mom.
Mom: But I blah blah.... and you need to blah blah...
You: Sorry, I can't do it mom.
Rinse, and repeat
Please check out this thread.
Here is a tip - your mother will never sell while she has people at her beck and call, fetching and carrying, jumping to attention every time she barks. You and your sister are, most definitely, her unpaid slaves. And while you remain her slaves that magic two year time frame in which to sell the property will be continually extended to another two and another two. That woman simply does not want to move from a situation where she has total control over other people. She is most definitely a bully.
As difficult as it may seem, possibly the first thing you both need to do is put aside resentment and hurt over what appears to have been a dreadful childhood at the hands of your mother. One often reads that forgiveness is essential to be able to move on to a satisfying life. Not important for the abuser but essential for the abused. It seems to be clouding your ability to think this situation through with any clarity. I don't know that I could do it with any conviction, but it may be worth a try. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Incidentally, that suggestion does not come from any religious belief that requires one to honour the parents, do unto others etc, a state of perfection which is counter-productive in toxic situations.
Even though you had no control over your mother's abuse during your childhood, you are both enabling your mother's atrocious behaviour NOW. In your sister's case I suppose she is between a rock and a hard place, needing a roof over her head and that of her children's. If there is an alternative living arrangement she could enter into, even if it is inadequate in the short term, perhaps she needs to take a leap of faith and move out in the hope of finding something better in the very near future. She certainly needs distancing from this soul destroying life. And you need to rescue yourself from the bullying too.
If your mother is able to hold down a job and undertake volunteer work, she is most certainly capable of looking out for herself and attending to her property. If you and your sister were unconscious in hospital for weeks and months on end, she would manage. She would just have to pay for assistance where she may well have some physical difficulties copying.
I live in a different country so I have no idea about elder intervention. I suppose your mother's doctor is the most obvious person to approach first. It did not help in my mother's case when we were trying to ease her into permanent care, despite his excellent advice. But faced with either keeping a relationship with her children and being alone, you never know something might penetrate her thick hide.
I can only think of simply walking away. Whether your sister can, or even wood, is for her to decide. I just hope someone else in this forum has better suggestions for you.
Repeat it as often as necessary.
There us a book called "Boundaries", by Townsend and Cloud. Get a copy and get one for your sister.
It has often been my observation here that it's very often adult children of abusive parents who think that it's their job to obey their parents' every demand.
Those with healthier boundaries growing up were taught that saying "no", even to their parent is a necessary part of adulthood
The advice already given is excellent. If it was just you and your mother, I would quite (coldly to some here, although not anyone who has posted thus far!) firmly tell you to leave mother to her own devices...with her mobility impairments perhaps she would eventually take a fall and then be forced into a better living situation.
BUT I am also concerned for your sister. She is her own person, of course, and makes her own decisions. But you appear to have a good bond with her, and if her life continues as it is, she could well die before your mother (has she expressed suicidal ideations?). Could the two of you bolster each other to stand up to your bully of a mother?
If your mother sold the house, you said that your sister could afford to live on her own. How would that work? Why can't your sister afford to live on her own now?
What is your mother's financial situation? Are you and your sister the only siblings? Are you the heirs to her estate?
You also mention your children and your sister's children. If you can't put yourself and your sister first, what about them? Their living situation now is going to affect them for a lifetime. Is it a good effect?
I would suggest that you discuss this issue with your sister, and come back and tell us if the two of you are willing to stand up to your bully mother.
Boundary time. Do not continue to be at your beck and call. It's just too crazy. You need to stand up for yourself and let her suffer the consequences of her poor choices and selfishness.
She'll be mad. Too bad. You're mad! Aren't you allowed to be mad and frustrated and just DONE? Yes. Yes, you are allowed.
Say No mom, I can not (or will not) do X (insert unreasonable demand).
Best of luck!
She sounds pretty independent, so I'm not sure why you and your sister are hovering over her quite as much as you do. It seems you're more anxious about her messy house and whether she sells it or not.
Sis needs to move out, and the two of you take turns calling her every night to check-in for 10 minutes. Provide her with a list of local electricians, plumbers, and handymen, introduce her to Instacart for her groceries, and let her handle her own life. If she asks you to handle something, you're terribly busy and refer her to the list. If she uses a computer, teach her to use Yelp for referrals.
Please do not feel any false guilt. It is your mom who is guilty treating you like slaves. Her lifestyle is her choice, but it is entirely up to her to support her decisions. Not to you. And why should it be? They are not your decisions. She won't clean up her act as long as you keep enabling it. So, work with your sister to decide what you two want and then execute your plan. If you want to tell your mom (not ask but tell) do so, but do not accept any arguments. None. Remember, guilt involves facts, but not feelings. And factually you have nothing to feel guilty about. Truly you are doing her, as well as yourself, a favor by putting an end to this refusal to accept reality.
"Mom, the details don't matter, but Sis and I have talked, and this is not working for either of us any more. Sis will be moving out on (give Date). I will be able to come (once a month, whatever) to check on you. We know that this will mean a lot of changes for you going forth. If you decided to sell let us know and we can perhaps oversee when your hired people come to clear out the house, and etc. It is quite big for you. But that will be up for you to decide. Here are the names and numbers of a few places to check out if you need help (provide with Visiting Angels number or whatever is in your area). We really don't want to argue about this, as our decisions for ourselves are final, and were made as well as we can make them, and we've no energy left for argument".
You will now of course have to endure the accusations or dumping, of bad daughters, etc. The anger. The tears. And you will say you are so sorry to cause this distress, and made a mistake in trying to take on what you could not handle, but there you are. Just sorry. That is all.
This is about choice. Your choice. Wishing you good luck.
Your sister's problems are hers. Her x left, does she get support for her kids? Alimony for her at least till she got on her feet? SHE needs to figure out her own life. SHE needs to stand up to Mom. You can't do it for her. But you can do it for you. You can tell Mom you are no longer able to do for her. That if she can't do it for herself, she needs to sell the property and downsize. When she does that, you will help her clean out the house and help her move. With sister, you need to tell her u no longer are going to enable Mom where she can stay in her house. Sister needs to get her "big girl panties" on. Show her children what a strong woman is.
You make a very good point about the renovations already starting to look run down. Is there some way you could get some real estate agents (not sure what you call them in the US) to come and give a free appraisal on the property. (I say free for a reason - you are more likely to get your mother to agree to a FREE valuation than one that has to be paid for.) Assess it in its current state, and also if it were renovated to a particular standard. Get the agents to list what areas would need upgrading, get quotes for that upgrading. The cost of the renovations may well cost more than the difference between selling renovated and un-renovated.
Regarding your response to CTNN55 about your sister and brother in law's financial contribution to the property in which your mother lives. If your sister's contribution is not legally represented on the title, or some form of agreement in place, she most surely should getting legal advice as to her rights. Irrespective of what is currently in your mother's Will, given her difficult attitude she may well choose to change it from time to time, if you are both, or either, included now that may change in the future. It would be much simpler to challenge the Will if your sister has something in writing, either legally or privately drawn up between her and your mother, to prove the financial contributions. At the very least she should keep all receipts for anything she has and will pay towards the renovations and maintenance.
How I got to get my elderly parents to move to my state and city was two fold. I spent months coaxing them into just seeing what they could afford here, be it rent or purchase. Given their huge house, it signified a loss of independence, etc. to them but a brand new 2-3 BDRM condo comes with its perks. If it’s a rental, the maintenance crew takes care of X, Y, and Z, and if it’s a purchase, “Mom, we can get all brand new furniture for a home this size. I could sell everything you have now and get brand new things!” was a selling point.
That alone created a temporary openness that would never last on its own. But then my dad, as it turned out, had severe life-threatening issues that they didn’t know about. They said that doctors never mentioned this, but given the diagnoses were from 10-11 years ago, it became clearer that they were no longer capable of living on their own without either my sister or me to oversee their care — and given my sister lives in another country, that left me. With my dad getting admitted to the hospital via the ER every few weeks, the decision was finally made to pick a date one month out and move them out. For those 30 days, I drove down 3 hours every week for 4-5 days at a time to sell everything I could sell, throw away everything I couldn’t sell, pack up what they would keep, fix the basics in the house, list it for sale, find a rental place near my house and move them in. I’m still a little stunned it actually happened, though had I known how much nonstop work this would mean for me once they got here, I may have reconsidered. (Joking...kind of.)
Hang in there. You’re doing so much for her but don’t forget to give yourself a break. While it’s admirable you’re trying to help mom out and your sister, too — you have to come first. With your own serious health issues, you serve no purpose to any of them if you’re bedridden or worse.
Helping is doing something for someone that they are not capable of doing for themselves.
Enabling is doing things for someone that they can and should be doing for themselves.
Mom would be penalized by Medicaid where she would have to pay out of her pocket until that penalty, which is dollar for dollar, until the gifted amount is paid. There are waivers regarding homes, though, that might be available in your state. The caregiver is allowed to remain in the home if they provided medically necessary care for a period of two years before a nursing home is needed.
See an elder law attorney for advice.
1) you and your sister need to stand up for yourselves
2) 1-800-gotjunk
Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Complete lack of empathy or awareness of another person’s time, preferences, needs..
I went through this issue with my mom.
YOU need to set boundaries. She will scream and shout but you are enabling this behavior by not setting boundaries. She only gets away with this because you let her.
Think of it this way- do you allow a 3 year old in a room with priceless vases? No because they will break them.
Same with selfish parents. I wasted 10 years of my life and badly missed chunks of time with my small kids by being a slave ( across the Atlantic) to my selfish non planning NPD parents. That time doesn’t come back. I was trapped in a pattern of ‘wanting mom’s approval’ borne of a lifetime of emotional abuse.
Read ‘Will I ever be good enough’
You only have 1 life. You don’t get a redo.
My mum started falling at home. She is now in residential care. I used the falls as a pivot to ‘accompany her’ there. Early Alzheimers made her more compliant but she is still toxic as hell.
Silverlining, you'll get great advice when you look up NPD. In the meanwhile, the advice here is good too about boundaries. Don't waste any more years of your life (as I did). Prepare yourself though, if she's like my mother (who also said she wanted to sell), once you do sell, you won't have gotten enough money, "forced" her to move, etc etc - expect complaints and hurtful false accusations about that too.
I'm aware SS and such often don't add up to much income. Really though, anyone who works on salary is on a fixed income! I can't go to my employer and say "Hey, pay me a little more this week, my fridge went out."
I'm also thinking many elders don't realize how much things cost now, and thus don't get why laborers charge what they do. When my father bought a new Suburban with some extra features, my grandfather remarked how it "must have cost $15,000!". Nope... more like $45,000.
When mom is ready for change, then you can discuss with her the changes to be made and the timeline. Don't think that "the daughters" need to do it all. Enlist help from family, friends, church and paid help.
It’s time for you to stop traveling down on the weekends.
It’s time for your sister to move out.
Why would your mother make any changes? You are making it too easy for her to keep things exactly as they are.
Look up “codependent caretaking.”
https://www.expressivecounseling.com/articles/codependency-caretaking
You don’t have to set yourself on fire to keep other people warm. Not even your mother.
Caretakers don't practice self-care because they mistakenly believe it is a selfish act.
Caregivers practice self-care unabashedly because they know that keeping themselves happy enables them to be of service to others.
Best wishes!
I laughed when reading the part about needing help ironing!!! I haven't ironed anything in years, if not decades! I don't iron my stuff, I'm not about to iron ANYONE else's stuff!!
Perhaps in your case, you AND hubby need to back off. Oh, he can't do yardwork this week, he's strained his back (I promise your noses will not grow!) Then the following week, you are both busy... if she can't/won't do it, so be it - let it get to a point where either she relents (don't hold your breath!) or intervention can happen.
"She could apply for housing, rent subsidies, things like that, but there might be a codependency going on. While she DOES recognize that her health issues (the breakdown, panic attacks, etc) ARE caused by her living situation, I think that because she lives there, she's having a hard time envisioning what her alternatives are, and how moving out is truly her only choice at this point."
Rather than spending time every week helping mom, help your sister out by finding the resources for her. This would probably take less time and physical effort than what you are currently doing. Once you have some reasonable places and assistance she might qualify for, take her out and have a serious talk with her, presenting the information you have gathered. Include that you are no longer going to "enable" mom, which in some respect is helping/enabling your sister. Encourage her to make this change. If she balks, so be it. There is only so much you can do to help others. As hard as it might be to leave your sister to wallow in mom's abuse, you need to then just back off (start backing off NOW though!) A combination of providing her with the resource information she needs AND no helping hand from you might be enough to get her motivated. Hopefully she will see the light. If/when she moves out (don't warn or threaten mom first!), then provide mom with a list of repair/util people.
"I'm now thinking if I conceded part of anything left to me to my sister I'll a) be slammed with taxes and b) I'm very concerned my brother will fight for more."
IF mom passed and IF there were assets left to you all, then you TAKE your share and USE those assets to pay any tax implication - HOWEVER, the limit for inheritance is very high, and it doesn't sound like there would be much, even if the house were pristine and could fetch a nice price. You can then "gift" up to about $15k to your sister, with no tax implication to her, if you so choose.
Estate sales - my understanding is generally unless she had some priceless items, these don't generate a lot of money and the company takes a nice chunk out of it. Then you are left with anything that doesn't sell.
As for the house itself - if sister has done and/or paid for repairs and has any receipts, she might be able to recoup some. If she is living there rent free, then some/all of what she has done/paid for could be considered as payback/rent. This is NOT really the important part. Mom is able to work and volunteer, so she should be able to clean and clear out crap. Anything too heavy could either be (re)moved with help (paid or one of you help), but until she starts getting motivated to clean/clear out, hands off!!
It *really* sucks to have to do it after the fact, but that's what we had to do. In your mom's case, I would recommend the same. Let her live in her squalor and deal with it after the fact. Mom's place looked okay, but she had SO many clothes, shoes, handbags, etc that I was not aware of. She wasn't making a huge mess, superficial cleaning was done, but once you start taking everything out, whoa!! It took me over 1.5 years to get it cleared out, cleaned up and fixed for sale. It was about 1.5 hr each way and I could only spend a couple of hours each trip packing and cleaning. Brothers provided some help, but most of it fell on me to manage/do (including managing her care, coordinating the sale and all the finances!) The big repairs were the heating system that died after we moved her to MC and replacing the glass that was blowing seals/fogging up. Once it sold, what a relief!
As for her "stuff", if she moves or passes, some can be donated (get receipt/dollar amount if possible), yard sales (clean out the junk first, then you can have the sale indoors), pitch what isn't useful/wanted/salable, etc.