Hospital trying to figure out discharge plan and Dad's trying to get me to help him go home. Any advice?

No, no, no. Dad needs to go to rehab.

Tell the hospital he is being manipulative and you can not give up your livelihood to let him have his way.

Find a rehab that has smoking area, they know people have this addiction, heck, I see nurses and other workers smoking all the time.

He is being selfish asking you to risk elder neglect charges by lying.

Don't let anyone bully you into doing this.

Stay strong!

What a deliema you are in and poor dad. I can just imagine.
Has anyone said if he has MRSA?
Has it been long enough that he has passed through some of the withdrawal from the nicotine? Does his doctor know that he is a smoker? I wonder if he could get a nicotine patch or something like that to help ease his withdrawal?
He’s probably suffering from wanting to smoke more than from the wound.
You already know the answer. He needs to buck up and get this thing healed before he even thinks about going home with or without home health.

You just say no, I cannot be there 24/7 as I live 100 miles away. The discharge people will have to find another way.

Dad may not like the other options, but tough beans. If you lie and tell the discharge people you will be there, you are making a commitment. If you bail on the commitment, you could be held accountable if it becomes know that you have not fulfilled your obligation.

You are not responsible for Dad.

Thanks. I did tell the agency I live 100miles away and I can't be there 24/7. It's been suggested rehabnursing home he doesn't want anything to do with it, he has things to take care if at home, I've said if you don't get better you will die and won't have to worry about them. He tells me don't you think i know that. That is why I know what is best and that is to go home. You think I will get well in a rehab, but all They do is let you lie there. His friend went there and lived and died there. I said well when my grandma went in September it helped her get better. They did give him nicotine patch. I bought him some nicotine lozenges and nuts to help to have something to munch. I did tell the hospital case manager nobody is there at night. I didn't talk with him last night and he didn't call me. I'm sure he is mad that I didn't play the game right.

Hold tight!  Don't tell any lies, no matter what grief dad gives you.  It could really get ugly for you.  And you don't need to endanger your job (in this uncertain economy) just because dad is acting like an entitled child. This is his problem, not yours.

Glad that you told the people the truth and didn't let dad make you lie to them. I agree with others that doing so could put you in a very bad place, if something were to go wrong. You can't take that risk.

I'm sure some rehabs are better than others but hopefully there is a good one near your dad and he can go there to finish recovering. I wonder if he's ready for rehab if he still has this big open wound? Seems like he still needs nursing care? Just curious - how did he get that big boo boo in the first place? Yikes, sounds scary.

Stand your ground and help him get the level of care that he needs at this point. Once he improves, it probably would be fine for him to go back home.

He got the wound because he doesn't have reliable help. It's been a issue for a long time. He has a program in Colorado he can hire/fire his own people and do the timesheets. I've talked to his case manager, your dad can make all the bad decisions he wants until court declares him incompetent. helped for years when i lived by him. I got married a moved away. He doesn't want to go to nursing home or anything. Just home. He doesn't want anyone telling him what to do. This is why he never likes to go to doctors or hospitals. But the wound was too bad to treat at home. Only because the wound nurse finally convinced him he needed to go he drove himself there. Modified falling apart van. I told him I can't be there on a regular time to do IV. That's ok he says we say you can then I can hire someone and fool the agency so they still come do the wound care. I talked with agency and if I bail and lie they wont help him but my dad is one of those what they don't know doesn't hurt them and stupid rules. I go by rules. So I didn't call him last night and he didn't call me. If He tricks them somehow it's not on me.

Hospital staff typically seems focused on getting the patient out-the-door ASAP. If you are there they will gladly roll the wheelchair out to your car and tell you just to take the person home and take care of them. And, if you are a daughter, then yes, the medical community expects you will sacrifice your job/career at the drop of a hat for an elderly parent. Keep your distance, your job, your sanity and have them find another solution.

Case manager at Hospital called said something must be sinking in because I suggested looking in nursing/rehab and he agreed he even picked one out to look into. I told them that is wonderful. I backed off calling dad today because I want him to understand im not lying and these are his choices. I talked with my aunt and she is in agreement with me too. So it looks like it might work out! Fingers crossed he goes thru with it! I will call later and check on him.

Sounds like things are moving in the right direction.

smilebeth, "unsafe discharge" is an important phrase for you to use, should you ever have to go toe to toe with a difficult hospital discharge planner.

Great work, Smilebeth! Stick to your guns!

Don’t take him home..this is a very serious wound. You don’t live there & neither does your brother. Don’t help him get home. Tell Hospital Social Worker you refuse to help & you live far away & you work full time. Then leave. Tell them they have to find a SNF & they will do the wound care. Hugs 🤗

So now he tells me well doctor told me I can be an outpatient and go to the hospital 4 times a day. I told I don't think that is a good idea. Take the extra help to get better. Who knows but it's on him and the hospital if they go that way.

Ah, he wants to smoke. Most rehabs allow patients to sign out and come and go for a certain time. Check into that and let him know he can go for a walk or out in his wheelchair away from the facility or someone can take him for a drive. He may go with rehab if he knows he will have more autonomy than he does in the hospital. If his reasons are simply that he wants the comfort of home, no one can stop him from going against medical advice. At least he is willing to hire help.

My father is the patient from hell with his denial the severity of medical issues. He believed they had him in rehab for the $$. I gave in and took dad to my home. Six months later, I feel the life drained out of me.

If your father does end up going home, you may need to call his bluff with him calling the shots to make him understand. If that's the case, he will be back in the hospital after a short time and should be compliant the second time around.

Go with your instinct. Don't let him put you in a position to lie or exaggerate.

Your dad is in total denial. He thinks hes 30 years younger than he really is. HES NOT. He thinks he can manage his life. HE CANT. He cant be on his own. No one is there for for wound care. He cant do it.
That sore is huge and your dad wants to smoke? Yikes.
How about home heath? A nurse round the clock? Or someone who can change the IV? That will cost a huge amount of $$$.
Take everything of value from the house. Check in daily with video. But that still isnt a good idea because you dont know these people.
I think your dad cant get out of bed. What is the point of being at home? What if he falls? No one is there. That ship of him being alone at home has sailed. Your past that point now. He needs way more help than someone can give from 100 miles away.

As always, the most important thing is for your father to have the care that he needs. You cannot provide 24/7 care in your home. He needs to go to a rehab. Yes, he's stubborn and he doesn't want to go. No one wants to admit that things are going downhill and they are losing their independence. You just have to come up with a sentence that you repeat, such as, "Dad, we have to do what's best and right now, etc etc." You'll fill in the details for your situation.
Nope, no lying to agencies about who is in the house. The only trouble you'll get in is when there is an emergency and no one is there to assist him. He is not going to check himself in or get the help he needs, and btw, that wound sounds awful. OF COURSE he needs help to make sure it heals.
You are in charge now, and you are the one who has to make the best decisions. It's no longer open for discussion!

We get to the point where we have to become the parent to the elder.  My aunt wanted to go home, and ER was going to release her. I said No, she's worse now than 2days ago, in ER . I am not with her round the clock. She'll be passed out again and back here. They kept her for observation, and finally saw what I've been seeing.  She's still in hospital, going to rehab tomorrow. She doesn't know that yet. Not looking forward to telling her, but it has to be. Good luck making thru right decision for your father.

Oh, the bad decisions we can make out of weakness.... Take some deep breaths, go somewhere to clear your mind (even if it just means going for walk or taking a hot bath), We need to be mentally and emotionally stronger when we make tough decisions.

The hospital will not let Dad go alone unless there is someone there who is skilled enough to care for him. You sound as though it isn't you and being you are Emotionally drained, You all need to get on the same page and even perhaps involve the Hospital Social Worker with a plan now.

My FIL was like that. So...so...stubborn. He would get kicked out of every rehab he had to go to after a hospital stay. We ran out of ones he could go to(we live in Atlanta.) Finally, just had to hire someone to stay w him at home. Stay strong in your feelings. You are the one that has to live w decisions when all is done.

"The one agency can train me to do the IV bag replacement but they want my guarantee I will be there 24/7 or close 30 mins away. (I live in Laramie 100miles away) I explained I can take some time off but not 4-6 weeks. "

Be very careful. How much is "some time off"? We've seen it happen so many times that the caregiver ends up quitting their job to move in and take care of the elder.

Don't be trained to do anything, and none of this can happen. Your father needs to be in a skilled facility to take care of his health. Don't even step in briefly to do caregiving.

Went through something similar with mom and it was unmanageable at home. We had to hire a 24/7 live in. Don’t lie but work out a good plan before he gets released so it doesn’t turn into a difficult situation that falls on you. If he can afford to hire people then set them up so they are at his home before he leaves not after. Hope this helps.

Please, do not consider taking this on. A little white lie might be in order. Tell the hospital you aren’t eligible for any more leave at this time, due to your own personal use of leave previously. They cannot question you further, it’s your privacy they would be violating if questioning you, asking what was the leave for? What surgery? Just tell them the exact same announcement you previously, at this time I am ineligible for family leave from my job. If Dad asks, that’s all he needs to know. Same announcement, maybe throw in that you didn’t want to worry him. You are the adult here, and if this is how you have to handle it, so be it. Hospital wouldn’t be able to pressure you further to care for him, once they know that door is closed.
As for going to be trained, helping for a week or two, absolutely don’t do it. They will force you to stay the course, regardless of how it impacts your life. Do not. Do. It.

Your instinct not to lie and cover for him is dead on. Even if you could be there for 6 weeks and you can't, it might be asking too much of you to take on that responsibility. While you can be trained, yes, it isn't for everybody dealing with an IV and changing an IV bag, dealing with wound care (even though a nurse will come) aren't simple for everyone. Some of us are designed for that sort of thing and not for technology and some of us can do anything technical but can't handle medical stuff (just an example) but most importantly from what I am hearing is your dad is very likely to give you a hard time, not do the things he needs to protect and care for the IV site, bag etc. Back in the day (your dad lived then) a patient would never have been allowed to go home with an IV in their arm or probably the sore still at the stage it is on his back, this has been driven by insurance and while I'm not saying it isn't a good idea in many cases my gut says it isn't in your fathers case, at least not yet. Having responded to many a call for a patient sent home too soon or with a family member who wasn't really prepared to care for them or recognize when they needed more medical attention (or the opposite) I can say the system suffers and so do patients and families when people "fib" to work the system and insurance companies push people out too soon. But back to your situation, you are right and I would go heavier on telling dad that if you do what he is asking and something does happen you will loose the ability to help facilitate things the way in he wants in the future, the state (or whoever the "over seeing" organization he recognizes is) will come in and take control of his safety and well being and the easiest thing for them is to dump him in the easiest least expensive NH they can. A better plan is to look at this as the next step in hospital rehab. What is happening is he doesn't need the same skilled attention this hospital provides but he still needs full time skilled attention so the choices are hiring a full time qualified person to attend to IV's at his expense (Medicare isn't going to pay for this) or go to rehab which is what most people do. When he no longer needs the IV and the sore is healed enough and he passes all the milestones he can go back home (or some would go to AL, NH...) with a visiting Nurse coming to check on him and attend to the dressing. The assessments as to when he is ready or each step is made by the hospital and then rehab. They are responsible for making sure he is moving on to a situation that is safe and healthy and fills whatever needs are listed for his release from their facility, that's what the hospital is doing now and covering for him, fibbing about what is and isn't available only serves to hurt both of you in the future and could even hurt you legally not to mention emotionally. Let him know it isn't fair for him to put you in this position, you know you can't fulfill the requirements and they are set for a reason, if no one is there and the line get's infected or s can happen (it did to me) the catheter moves and the fluid starts infiltrating his arm rather than flowing through his vascular system or his wound opens up (he can't see it) and it doesn't get caught until the nurse comes in a day or two later he is going to end up back in the hospital, you are going to feel responsible and who knows if he is ever going to have the option to go home, you certainly aren't going to be accepted as a reliable opinion or caregiver and that will stay with his chart the rest of his life. Is moving to a knew facility for a few weeks worth all of that? I'm talking to him through you here, I think you already know where you stand on it and your instinct is right on. I also know however how hard it is to stick to when you have so much push back, it's likely not the last time or thing you will get pushback on so pick your battles but I for one agree and support you, this is one to pick.

As others have said, no. Just no. Do not enable him in his "plans". He will need the extra care to heal and if you "agree" to having him come home and care for him, but do/can not, consider the legal if not moral and/or emotional complications if something goes wrong! Less guilt in sticking to your guns and refusing to let him guilt you into lying for him!

Not sure how this "doctor" thinks the outpatient visits will work. Clearly he did not get his butt in to have this treated before it became a bigger issue, so it isn't likely he will comply with these outpatient visits. Have you told this doctor that he is most likely not to comply? If doctor is made to understand this, he might change his mind. It would make him complicit if anything happens as he recommended it!!!

I didn't discuss it with Dad or Mom, I just arranged for transfer onto rehab. They were both upset that he wasn't coming straight home from the hospital but the therapists got him walking, talking and eating some foods again. He had 2 more months with Mom and the end wasn't abrupt or traumatic. If your dad hasn't got sense enough to take care of himself he needs a SNF until he is well enough to be alone. Also, plan on this happening again. Since he is a smoker and presumably diabetic you can also plan on a stroke. What will you do with him then? Don't be nice about this. It's YOUR life we are talking about here! You get to call the shots unless you want to walk away. Your parent's generation didn't care for people this old; their parents died younger and more cognitively intact.

I am SURE you can get, through his insurance some sort of home heath care/nurse that will come into his home and do this.

Rehabs are a great place to pick up the nasties like c-diff and mrsa and he is right, with care on this IV he would be MUCH better off and have a faster recovery at home.

If the insurance covers it, or you have the funds, hire someone, have the hosp. direct you to a nursing agency that can do it. That way, you are happy, he is happy and he get's well. I think at a certain age, we know our bodies better than anyone else does. Give him a chance to get a RN or just get off your butt and get one for him, then all the problems are solved, at least for this round.

I just went through this with my 95 year old dad in November. Doctors said he wasn't capable of living alone because of cognitive impairment. He ended up in the hospital because he lost his antibiotics and ended up with a septic UTI. He wasn't eating so was down to 125 pounds which is something for a man who was a fit 165 in his prime.

I live 70 miles away. He lived in a small town in rural Montana with no help available. Over the years, he fought every suggestion to go into assisted living or even to move closer to me so I could get him help. Sadly, he tried to escape the hospital which put him into an entirely different category because the social workers got involved. He was considered a high risk of escaping so I was told he needed to go into a secure facility which put him directly into memory care with nursing help. They weren't going to let me do anything else. If I had tried to take him home, as he begged me to, I would have found myself explaining things to adult protective services.

That is the 500 lb gorilla in the room. Adult protective services will hold the caregiver responsible if they put or leave a vulnerable elder in a hazardous situation. It is considered abuse and neglect. The penalties for elder abuse are severe folks - including heavy fines and/or prison time!

Never allow anyone to pressure you to lie. Brother doesn't live with your dad and to say so puts you in legal jeopardy. I'm 62 years old and I can honestly say I don't want to start my senior years in prison!

My Dad hates me at this point but he is safe and is being cared for. That is what matters in the end.

I just went through this with my 95 year old dad in November. Doctors said he wasn't capable of living alone because of cognitive impairment. He ended up in the hospital because he lost his antibiotics and ended up with a septic UTI. He wasn't eating so was down to 125 pounds which is something for a man who was a fit 165 in his prime.

I live 70 miles away. He lived in a small town in rural Montana with no help available. Over the years, he fought every suggestion to go into assisted living or even to move closer to me so I could get him help. Sadly, he tried to escape the hospital which put him into an entirely different category because the social workers got involved. He was considered a high risk of escaping so I was told he needed to go into a secure facility which put him directly into memory care with nursing help. They weren't going to let me do anything else. If I had tried to take him home, as he begged me to, I would have found myself explaining things to adult protective services.

That is the 500 lb gorilla in the room. Adult protective services will hold the caregiver responsible if they put or leave a vulnerable elder in a hazardous situation. It is considered abuse and neglect. The penalties for elder abuse are severe folks - including heavy fines and/or prison time!

Never allow anyone to pressure you to lie. Brother doesn't live with your dad and to say so puts you in legal jeopardy. I'm 62 years old and I can honestly say I don't want to start my senior years in prison!

My Dad hates me at this point but he is safe and is being cared for. That is what matters in the end.